Tue, 29 May 2012
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Hm. Let me see.
Geert has two balls.
Maxime has none. What a girlie name, after all.
Looks like the score is 2-0.
Religion of Peace strikes again!
He is certainly has the right to free expression. Voltaire would certainly defend his right to free expression. Is it the right thing to do at this time.
You have the right of freedom of expression until your expression infringes or damages the freedoms of other people. And in the Netherlands you do not have the right to incite violence, preach hatred, spout bigotry, or espouse racism. The Dutch learned their lesson with those things with the Nazi's. Hopefully they will remember their willingness to slaughter people for their religion two generations ago and err on the side of tolerance for human beings. I think Wilders would be very wise in reconsidering the broadcasting of this film. It will not just influence him, it will have repercussions for all Dutch people and anyone living in the Netherlands. And at this point, this seems to be more about his personal problem with Islam and foreigners than anything else.
I read a few months ago, an article where Wilders discusses all the ways in which foreigners are terrible and Islam in particular is "Evil" and how they should have all of their freedoms removed and be forced to return to their countries of origin regardless of how long they've been here or whether or not they'd be in danger there, or what their quality of life would be there. And then he whined that he didn't have freedom because he thinks that he needs security. And in my view, he's being ridiculous and hypocritical as well. You have to expect that what you will do will have consequences. He seems to enjoy feeling persecuted, even while he's persecuting someone else.
I am sorry Jessi sometimes violence must be faced. Hitler should have been faced early as he incited violence, preached hatred spouted bigotry and espoused racism - as does Islam. The lesson the Dutch have learnt (or should have learnt) is to face off early and hard. Chamberlain and company had ample chances to nullify a tyrant who was eventually responsible for 55 million deaths. Unfortunately, Chamberlain and company thought like you. The more we bend to Islam the harder we will eventually fall.
Jessi, we always have the right to speak the truth.
Jessi,
I've been following Mr Wilder's comments closely. And nowhere has he 'incited violence', preached 'hatred', spouted 'bigotry' or espoused 'racism'.
See, let me explain it to you simply, so you can understand. Islam isn't a race, so opposition to it can't be racist, can it?
And how can it be bigotry, it he's simply quoting from the Koran itself? Uncomfortable truths, certainly, that contradict the endless "Religion of Peace (tm)" mantra that keeps getting jammed down our throats, but not bigotry.
Further, I've never heard Mr. Wilders say all foreigners are terrible, nor that they should have their religious freedoms removed and forcibly repatriated. Rather, I have heard him say that if you don't conform to the laws of the Netherlands and reject Dutch society, you should leave. He's right, of course, as was Pim Fortuijn. As is Hirsi Ali.
Now, on the other hand, I do read regularly of imams urging violence, preaching racism and bigotry (does "sons of pigs and monkeys" ring a bell when they speak of Jews?) and extreme intolerance. How about the anti-gay ravings of the imam in Rotterdam that say gays ought to killed violently for their 'sins'? Clearly, you think that's perfectly acceptable free-speech behavior that doesn't infringe any gay persons rights. Talk about a double standard and hypocrisy!
It's not hypocritical to want security as an MP when his life is repeatedly threatened by these types. I find it significant that you mention in the same breath, the current Islamic threat with the Nazi threat of the past. There are a lot of similarities there though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
The lesson many Dutch did learn from the Nazi's was that one does have to stand up to evil and threats or face the consequences. Hopefully, like the Danes who are also under threat today, they'll continue to stand up to the threats we all face now.
Jessi,
Although I agree that the release of Geert Wilders' film might be inflammatory and incite violence, it should still be allowed to be broadcast. Voltaire had it right, it is the most important part of that right to free speech that ALL, no matter who they are or what they stand for, have the opportunity to express their beliefs. This would be everyone from radical and militant Islamists, to Geert Wilders, from Communists to Neo-Nazis. It is through this free exchange of ideas that people can make informed decisions about what is best for themselves and for their nation or culture.
On the other hand, having the right to free speech does not absolve you of the consequences of what you say. If you want to say something that you know is inflammatory to many other people watch out to threats to your person and to people connected with you. Basically, Geert Wilders certainly has the right to broadcast his message but if things don't go down very well afterwards, he can fully expect the Dutch people to take him to task for his words.
And as for the Dutch learning any lesson during World War II, that is cast into doubt from their actions during the war and their "Police Action" in Indonesia afterwards. Nothing about this is truly black and white.
Well said, asdf.
Verhagen and Balkenende are snivelling cowards and traitors. They are concerned about one thing only but they will never admit it. The filthy lucre. Holland's trade with Islamic countries, fascist totalitarian regimes like Saudi Arabia. The Dutch economy. Their SUV's and expensive lifestyles are more important to them than truth, freedom and beauty.They are shamefully compromised weaklings who are sleeping with the enemy for the sake of comfort. Fear is what motivates them. They are the problem..not Wilders.These dhimmis do not care about the Dutch people and human rights...not for a second. Anyone who genuinely loves freedom and equal rights and knows what Islam and the koran represents would support Wilders.
I totally agree with the making and the projection of the film, he has all the right to do so. Even though I profoundly dislike the guy itself I support his vision of islam, I just extend mine to all kind of religions and that's where I wonder if he will be so critical with the bible aswell since it also has its share(and a good deal of it)of fascism, machismo, racism, hate and violence.
Hm. Let me see.
Geert has two balls.
Maxime has none. What a girlie name, after all.
Looks like the score is 2-0.
Religion of Peace strikes again!
He is certainly has the right to free expression. Voltaire would certainly defend his right to free expression. Is it the right thing to do at this time.
You have the right of freedom of expression until your expression infringes or damages the freedoms of other people. And in the Netherlands you do not have the right to incite violence, preach hatred, spout bigotry, or espouse racism. The Dutch learned their lesson with those things with the Nazi's. Hopefully they will remember their willingness to slaughter people for their religion two generations ago and err on the side of tolerance for human beings. I think Wilders would be very wise in reconsidering the broadcasting of this film. It will not just influence him, it will have repercussions for all Dutch people and anyone living in the Netherlands. And at this point, this seems to be more about his personal problem with Islam and foreigners than anything else.
I read a few months ago, an article where Wilders discusses all the ways in which foreigners are terrible and Islam in particular is "Evil" and how they should have all of their freedoms removed and be forced to return to their countries of origin regardless of how long they've been here or whether or not they'd be in danger there, or what their quality of life would be there. And then he whined that he didn't have freedom because he thinks that he needs security. And in my view, he's being ridiculous and hypocritical as well. You have to expect that what you will do will have consequences. He seems to enjoy feeling persecuted, even while he's persecuting someone else.
I am sorry Jessi sometimes violence must be faced. Hitler should have been faced early as he incited violence, preached hatred spouted bigotry and espoused racism - as does Islam. The lesson the Dutch have learnt (or should have learnt) is to face off early and hard. Chamberlain and company had ample chances to nullify a tyrant who was eventually responsible for 55 million deaths. Unfortunately, Chamberlain and company thought like you. The more we bend to Islam the harder we will eventually fall.
Jessi, we always have the right to speak the truth.
Jessi,
I've been following Mr Wilder's comments closely. And nowhere has he 'incited violence', preached 'hatred', spouted 'bigotry' or espoused 'racism'.
See, let me explain it to you simply, so you can understand. Islam isn't a race, so opposition to it can't be racist, can it?
And how can it be bigotry, it he's simply quoting from the Koran itself? Uncomfortable truths, certainly, that contradict the endless "Religion of Peace (tm)" mantra that keeps getting jammed down our throats, but not bigotry.
Further, I've never heard Mr. Wilders say all foreigners are terrible, nor that they should have their religious freedoms removed and forcibly repatriated. Rather, I have heard him say that if you don't conform to the laws of the Netherlands and reject Dutch society, you should leave. He's right, of course, as was Pim Fortuijn. As is Hirsi Ali.
Now, on the other hand, I do read regularly of imams urging violence, preaching racism and bigotry (does "sons of pigs and monkeys" ring a bell when they speak of Jews?) and extreme intolerance. How about the anti-gay ravings of the imam in Rotterdam that say gays ought to killed violently for their 'sins'? Clearly, you think that's perfectly acceptable free-speech behavior that doesn't infringe any gay persons rights. Talk about a double standard and hypocrisy!
It's not hypocritical to want security as an MP when his life is repeatedly threatened by these types. I find it significant that you mention in the same breath, the current Islamic threat with the Nazi threat of the past. There are a lot of similarities there though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
The lesson many Dutch did learn from the Nazi's was that one does have to stand up to evil and threats or face the consequences. Hopefully, like the Danes who are also under threat today, they'll continue to stand up to the threats we all face now.
Jessi,
Although I agree that the release of Geert Wilders' film might be inflammatory and incite violence, it should still be allowed to be broadcast. Voltaire had it right, it is the most important part of that right to free speech that ALL, no matter who they are or what they stand for, have the opportunity to express their beliefs. This would be everyone from radical and militant Islamists, to Geert Wilders, from Communists to Neo-Nazis. It is through this free exchange of ideas that people can make informed decisions about what is best for themselves and for their nation or culture.
On the other hand, having the right to free speech does not absolve you of the consequences of what you say. If you want to say something that you know is inflammatory to many other people watch out to threats to your person and to people connected with you. Basically, Geert Wilders certainly has the right to broadcast his message but if things don't go down very well afterwards, he can fully expect the Dutch people to take him to task for his words.
And as for the Dutch learning any lesson during World War II, that is cast into doubt from their actions during the war and their "Police Action" in Indonesia afterwards. Nothing about this is truly black and white.
Well said, asdf.
Verhagen and Balkenende are snivelling cowards and traitors. They are concerned about one thing only but they will never admit it. The filthy lucre. Holland's trade with Islamic countries, fascist totalitarian regimes like Saudi Arabia. The Dutch economy. Their SUV's and expensive lifestyles are more important to them than truth, freedom and beauty.They are shamefully compromised weaklings who are sleeping with the enemy for the sake of comfort. Fear is what motivates them. They are the problem..not Wilders.These dhimmis do not care about the Dutch people and human rights...not for a second. Anyone who genuinely loves freedom and equal rights and knows what Islam and the koran represents would support Wilders.
I totally agree with the making and the projection of the film, he has all the right to do so. Even though I profoundly dislike the guy itself I support his vision of islam, I just extend mine to all kind of religions and that's where I wonder if he will be so critical with the bible aswell since it also has its share(and a good deal of it)of fascism, machismo, racism, hate and violence.
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