8 reactions to this article

Maarten posted: 04-01-2008 | 7:38 PM

I think you will get used to this weird Dutch people eventually! It's great that you stay in the Netherlands! And about the shopping: just visit Shanghai once or twice a year...

Steve posted: 05-01-2008 | 12:52 PM

Very good article Miki, how true about the manly women and the shallow opening questions, always the same - 1. 'how long have you lived in Hollland?' 2. 'so you speak Dutch?'<br /> You were polite to not mention the bad service everywhere and understaffed shops. Even passport control has 2 staff members sometimes with a queue of hundreds waiting. 'Inconvenience and obstruct others' seems to be the way of life here.<br/> Also the way they stare at you sternly and say 'niet normaal' if you are not a standard Dutchie.<br /> On the good side, if you ask which direction is the museum for example, you will not escape for 10 minutes while they instruct you with every left and right turn for the entire journey... well ok that's not so good.<br /> I'd question your assertion that they put people ahead of money. They don't want to work more than exactly 9 to 5 because it's their 'right', and who cares if they inconvenience customer, they get the same pay anyway. But try to get 10 Euro cents out of them and you will see where money is on their priority list.<br />

Karin posted: 09-01-2008 | 10:07 PM

Dear Miki,

Nice observations! If I may add another one; I've been to China quite a few times and deal with Chinese companies for my work. I have found that there is a huge difference in work ethics between Chinese and Dutch people. Because of the whole poldermodel and 'stand up for your rights' thing here, Dutch people are very likely to respond to an order from their superiors by saying: why? This can obviously be very annoying when you just want to get something done. Chinese people on the other hand will follow orders for sure, but they therefore sometimes lack the creativity to come up with other solutions.

Regarding the Dutch being shallow, I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, when I was studying in China I found that it is really difficult to meet and get to know Chinese students. On the streets and in taxis it was rather easy to make conversation but also on a very basic level (although this could be because of the level of my Chinese, hehe). Obviously this also has to do with work ethics as well: study hard all day and do everything in your power to get a good grade for the Chinese students. Whereas foreign students were usually happy enough to pass the test with minimal grades and would rather go out to drink and dance and have fun instead of putting in the extra hours to get a good grade...

Well, it just seems that there are pros and cons in every culture and for each and every country and that's what makes it all so very interesting!

As you know, China is very close to my heart, and I understand why you miss it, but I'm very happy that you're staying in Amsterdam for now!

Zaijian, Karin

Marc van Blijswijk posted: 30-01-2008 | 3:49 PM

I like Miki's comments, no problem there, but I do take offense to some of the things this "Steve" says.

Steve, I don't know where you originate from (I would guess the U.S. of A. though), but I am a Dutchman who has emigrated to Luxembourg (the French speaking southern area of it)and you should try their service and social attitude sometime. Do you know that 10 minutes before closing time they start to turn off the lights in the shops and start covering up the freezing compartments and when they ask you to leave they do not ask it as nice as the Dutch do. I often arrive late at a Dutch shop when I'm here and usually the trick is to just nice say you'll only need a minute for something (even when that may not be 100% true) and they'll let you go. And if I need to know something I can ask any Dutch person for help, and they will help me, even when it's late or overtime (the odd exception set aside). And they will speak to me in English too if I would need that. Try that in France. And here people will not only answer your question, they will also think along with you and offer possibly useful alternative solutions. But perhaps you'd say that is cocky and uninvited advice or something. And all this is not enough service for you ? Perhaps you just forgot to ask nicely and say please...

As for the Chinese, wonderful people. My best friend is from Kowloon, Hong Kong. Eventually they will have to let go a bit of that work-work-work mentality because in the end humans are just not designed for it (look at Japan's suicide rate at school and work). And The Netherlands harbours the largest Chinese population in Europe. Have you not heard the saying that the Dutch are the Chinese of Europe ?

miki posted: 31-01-2008 | 11:52 AM

thanks everybody for your time and sincere comments! i really appreciate it!! i guess every culture is unique and sometimes it is difficult to define what is right or what is wrong in terms of our own culture. but at the end, i believe there are most similarities than differences. because we are all human being. I hope everybody will open their heart a bit more, then we will have a prettier and cozier world.
"Work hard and play hard" and "Life is fun." those are my quotes! xixi...

groetjes,

miki

Danielle posted: 27-02-2008 | 5:32 AM

I enjoyed reading this story and learning more about Amsterdam fashion and life (I live in the US). I am curious now, if the men wear different patterns in the same outfit, for example a striped top with plaid pants. Also, where do you think women get their accessories? I had a Dutch teacher once and she was SO well-dressed, I would sit up close to see her outfit!

Joe posted: 05-04-2008 | 7:33 PM

In my experience, Steve's right on... And what's up with the standard Dutch distaste of anything French?

I've lived years both in the Netherlands and France. Ironically just about everything tastes better in French culturally influenced places, which I am saying as a third party observer. Although many Dutch people label anyone French as chauvinistic, then mock that strawman, it feels more like jealousy. Maybe because Marc is Dutch he is treated better in his own country.

As a foreigner living in Holland, I can tell you they try to stick it to foreigners subtlety left and right. They try to rip off expats, like having to pay for months of medical insurance you never had to a private Dutch insurance company, or by making it ridiculously difficult for foreigners to get reasonably priced mobile contracts, I could go on and on how they target foreigners and name multiple people who moved away in disgust. Generally speaking, it feels like the Dutch system mistrusts foreigners until proving williness to jump through a bunch of hoops and basically everything humanly possible short of sending them a stool sample. Meanwhile Dutch people can openly victimize foreigners (e.g., rental scams targeting foreigners) in plain view of the police and get away with it. If you have or bring a car to Holland, just bend over, assume the position, they will be after your wallet 24/7.

I think they are no less chauvinistic than they imagine the French to be. French people helped me and treated me respectfully and equally a lot more in their country. I was invited to amazing meals at people's homes, and to family events many, many times in France. Here I always feel like an outsider unless I stay with expats or perhaps marry a Dutch person.

Dutch people pretend to be nice, to be open to other cultures because they learned English (bravo for that), but then its as if they'll stab you in the back for a euro. In France, you can find so many interesting products and food items that are delicious. Had Miki gone to France, she would not have had the same comments about shopping and food. Dutch people joke about Italian thieves (while caravanning in Italy), but visitors of the Netherlands beware: you'd better count your change too. They pretend to be the most liberal and tolerant and least chauvinistic people on Earth. But they'll rip you off and customer service in the Netherlands is despicable. You have to buy something or pay to take a whiz everywhere you go.

Eric van Biezen posted: 24-05-2008 | 10:38 AM

Hi Miki, I am a Dutch born Australian, and I like to congratulate you for your courage to go to Amsterdam. Having lived in Australia ( the best country on earth) now for nearly 40 years, I found Dutch culture ( is there such a beast?) arrogant at best. living with a Chinese women for the last 5 years, i can appreciate what real culture is. My many visits to China were fantastic, exciting, I love your home town Shanghai. Keep enjoying the Dutch experience, after that, try Australia. PS: are there more pushbikes in Holland or China