14 reactions to this article

J.W.Dieudonne posted: 16-05-2008 | 11:13 AM

I don't like to see any European country loose its character that has been aquired over several centuries. Travelling through Europe is great because of the many differences in looks and norms.
If one chooses to settle in a country it is only fair to integrate to the fullest of your ability,
after all, you request to be accepted and not demand! The sooner you learn the language and norms
the easier it is to settle. A shame that too many migrants don't even try.

VD posted: 18-05-2008 | 8:04 AM

The act of discrimination does not keep a countries character, and further more it keeps every one and thing the same. All one race, all one religion, all the same education level, all the same language etc.
One can choose to integrate into a society with out being discriminated against, but if you choose to allow discrimination, you choose to not allow them to integrate. That has nothing to do with shame of migrants, or a migrant not trying, or demanding anything but it has everything to do with bigotry.
In all of our history on earth when has bigotry, intolerance, unfairness and prejudice ever made a country or the world for that matter a better place?

Intan Raphay posted: 22-05-2008 | 9:25 AM

I have had first hand discrimination because of this law and the immigration program of the Netherlands.
I moved to Amsterdam from Paris. I lived there for 25 years, my move was due to my marriage to a Dutchman. The marriage failed I brought my children over they are French I am Malysian with PR status in France. I was working but because of the divorce I had to leave Holland and My youngest son who was studying there.Malaysia may be a country that has no cultrual similarities to the Netherlands but I moved from another EU country did all the Inburgherings program and still had to leave because my case to remain in the Netherlands was refused. Human Rights .......

Sunny posted: 22-05-2008 | 11:00 AM

I fully agree that the Dutch laws discriminte against foreigners from non " European" countries as i and my wife have had first hand experience of this. But do not expect anything better as you will always remain a " vreemdeling" in this country no matter how much you try to integrate, after all "apartheid" practiced shameessly for decades in south africa was most probably a dutch invention. THe current so called integration tests to be taken by people even before the person sets a foot on the ground here are truly discriminatory and appear to be intended to stop migration from some countries. even highly educated and skilled people from countries like India, Malaysia etc are suffering from this law as they can not bring in their spouse from their country for a long time. many of my friends working in highly placed jobs have moved out of the country due to the problems with immigration laws. It is unbeleivable that the country is able to get away with such laws in the 21st century, and even European union does not do anthing about it. I hope better sense prevails on the minister of immigration and they scrap this law if they wish to avoid alienating foreigners in the country.

Lea posted: 22-05-2008 | 11:12 AM

I have a Dutch friend who has an Indonesian wife. They have been married for like three years now with one-year-old daughter. But since their marriage, the couple has never lived together and he hardly sees his own daughter since she was born in Indonesia.My friend couldn't bring his wife and kid directly because suddenly,the company where he worked before was declared bankrupt and the government considered him will not be able to give support to the family. So he had to find another permanent job with a certain salary level in order to bring his family to Holland. It took him almost two years to get a new contract with a new company. And now that he has the job, his wife still needs to take and to pass the Dutch test in Indonesia before she can come with their daughter. So I guess the couple needs to wait longer in order to live together.

Cesar posted: 22-05-2008 | 11:24 AM

Well...there's no surprise here. Dutch society is like that: They don't like changes, they don't like anything to be different of how it is. I wish all immigrants in Netherlands could leave. The dutch would face the issue of finding proper workers for all kind of jobs. To be honest, I'm glad I'm near to be out of Netherlands.

Iftikhar Ahmad posted: 22-05-2008 | 12:46 PM

Salaam

Europe is a home of institutional racism. There is no place for a foreign culture, language and faith. Foreigners are not welcome in European countries. Not a single European country can live without economic migrants. They must learn to live with those who are different from them in culture, language and faith. Newly arrived migrants must be provided with free faciltiies to learn the language of the respective country and at the same thim, their children should be encouraged to learn their faith, language and culture. They need state funded schools with their own bilingual teachers as role model during their developmental periods.

Gerry posted: 22-05-2008 | 12:47 PM

Without discrimination you would have an open door policy. There has to be a degree of control, the Netherlands cannot be expected to house, educate, feed and look after the well being of every world citizen. If these foreigners were a little more grateful instead of trying to portray the Dutch as Neo-Nazis perhaps they may gain a little more favour. When was the last time you heard someone say thank you for allowing me to share in the fruits of your labours and endeavours of your fore Fathers.
" They don't like changes, they don't like anything to be different of how it is."
Because the way it is is good and if it was as good in your country you would still be there.
You have the choice of going back to where you came from if you don't like it here and miss your relatives. The Dutch don't. South Africa is an example of true discrimination at the moment. Think of yourselves as lucky to be living in a civilised and tolerant country and stop complaining. The alternative is to say "no more we're full", no one could then complain about discrimination.

Marc posted: 22-05-2008 | 12:53 PM

I am a Dutch citizen. I and my Argentine girl friend (who I've known for six years) have been trying to get married and settle back in the Netherlands.

The basic Dutch culture and language exam taken at the embassies is "Pure Evil" and has nothing to do with integrating. They must take the test "before" entering the country.

This means learning the Dutch language overseas. The official study packet “does not include” any help for learning the language (only the cultural part). It is hard enough to learn Dutch, but before entering the country... it is near impossible and the only Dutch class in Buenos Aires is absolutely horrible!!!!

Furthermore, the test is now done by computer which uses voice recognition... a a person just learning a language will not pronouce and annuncuate correctly.. this never happens.

You integrate by coming to a country and learning its language - not by testing someone with no real means to do so before entering the country.

Other than that you are trampling on a Dutch citizen's right to marry who he or she wants and to live a normal life.

So yes this does violate basic human rights!

cesdom posted: 22-05-2008 | 5:05 PM

Hey Gerry!

Sorry dude. This is a bad country for immigrants. I was recruited by a company here in NL because of my skills (didn’t find a local for it). I was expected to stay here at least 3 years. After a year living here, I’m negotiating to work remotely from somewhere else, because this is truly a really bad place to live. Sorry about other Dutch people -- I have a Dutch family next to my house that are really friendly and kind -- however, the way government want to rule the country is what makes it really, really bad.

I could go on and on about -- I do believe that there're some good things here in NL -- but the bad ones HIGHLY pile up above the good ones...and this article is an example of one of the really bad ones.

Check out the Canadian and Australian immigration procedures. THAT is a civilized country immigration process.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp

sunny posted: 22-05-2008 | 5:43 PM

I agree with Cesdom..Gerry please understand that Dutch people are not living in a cocoon? This is a Globalised world. Do you know Holland is dependent on exports and that 80% or more of the income of major dutch companies like Shell, Unilver, Phillips, ABN AMRO etc is coming from overseas countries, and not some gold pot left behind by someones forefathers. Many people come to work here due to the global operaions of thse multinational companies. You should also be aware that the so called "Golden Age" was actually the worst time for mankind as citizens in many many countries that were colonised by the Europeans were treated in most inhuman manner..please read through history. You talk of " civilized world" but do you know how this civilisation was built? It was built out of the blood and sweat of people that were colonised...out of the wealth that was brought from those countries. Its not fair to say that you can allow people from other countries like Turkey, Marocco, Suriname when we need them and throw them out or illtreat them, when they have "done the job" and helped to develop the country! I like Dutch people a lot have a lot of friends, nothing personalagainst the Dutch people but its the policy of the government that is discriminating. And we should be little more wise to understand the reason behind such policies, these are meant to acquire more seats in the parliament....as was proved by Pim Fortuins party. This is what people forget.

Mrs Angry posted: 23-05-2008 | 3:00 AM

Whoa, before you get on your high horses, remember that the Netherlands is the most populated country in Europe, and that once people here get residency, they get all the support they need.

England is the second most populated country in Europe, with pretty good benefits too. No surprise that people from all over the world target these two.

France? Plenty of room, but rather than do their duty to political asylum seekers, they shunt them off to Calais where with the connivance of the Red Cross they can get to UK via Eurotunnel.

If you think I'm utterly heartless, I still support Red Cross (with tiny sub), but my real bugbear is NOT Red Cross, Netherlands UK immigration policy, it's the fact that we allow France people traffic to our borders

kerry posted: 24-05-2008 | 5:23 PM

NO!to any changes which make Europe into a Muslim state!All Dutch!Fight to get all these scumbags out NOW!

kelley smith posted: 29-06-2008 | 6:38 AM

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

This has been the social rule for all countries.
We all know the main concern for the Dutch is those immigrating without any intention of becoming assimilated. How who be arrogant enough to assume they could immigrate without assimilating. The Dutch are a highly educated and sophisticated society. Perhaps those who wish you immigrant should invest in themselves and prepare. Learning the language and social customs as well as being able to handle seeing two men kissing, women dancing naked. If these things are offensive, they should look for another place to live.

I think the root cause of this change is more to do with those who have extreme religious views and beliefs e.g. Muslims who seem to want to immigrate but not assimilate. It is NOT racist to allow those you can live in the Netherlands who can accept the Dutch culture.