Tue, 7 February 2012
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The number of Dutch under-18s addicted to cannabis is on the increase. Many of them begin smoking pot regularly at age thirteen, and get into such difficulties that they have to be admitted to a rehab clinic.The young smokers are getting into conflicts with their parents, are dropping out of school and many of them are known to the police. They often steal to get money to finance their habit.
In the past year, 370 teenagers diagnosed with a cannabis addiction were staying in three specialised rehab clinics, a survey by NOS public TV has shown. Three more treatment centres are being built to cope with the rising number of young addicts. Since 2002 the number has increased fourfold.
Not soft
One of the reasons behind the increase is the THC content of the drug, which keeps increasing as cultivators crossbreed powerful variants of the plant. THC is the active ingredient of cannabis. Figures from Jellinek Clinic show that "netherweed" contained 8.6 percent of THC in 2000, having almost doubled to 15.2 percent in 2002, making the drug much stronger - very much stronger than the "soft drug" that the parents of today's addicts remember from their own teenage years.
Cannabis use is widespread in the Netherlands. Statistics Netherlands, the government statistics office, found in August 2009 that half of all adult men between 20 and 25 had smoked at least one joint, and one third of women of that age. One in ten of the women and twice as many men were still smoking regularly, the statistics show.
Age nine
"Some of the problem cases smoked their first joint at age nine, in the school playground," youth worker Eric de Vos told NOS. "The majority of cannabis users are taking the drug for a reason, as a sort of self-medication to fall asleep easily, to forget misery or quarrels in the family, or problems at school. It's no longer innocent. When those kids are received into the clinic, they are often suffering from psycho-social problems."
Into rehab
At the Bauhuus in northern Groningen, one of the three clinics, teenagers aged between 13 and 18 are submitted to a treatment lasting between six and nine months. This includes helping them kick the habit.
"I used to smoke seven or eight joints a day, which is quite a lot at my age," clinic inmate Lisa (16) told NOS TV. "I also drank a lot, but my main addiction was cannabis. My parents divorced when I was thirteen, and I couldn't cope with that. I supressed my grief by smoking pot. I wasn't able to kick the habit, because it is more addictive than many people think. It makes you very indolent, you don't go to school or to your sports clubs anymore, you quarrel at home and become very impolite and disrespectful.Your personality changes." Staying in the Bauhuus clinic really helps her get to grips with her life again, Lisa says.
Learning, or re-learning, social skills is central to life in the clinic.The teenagers learn how to hold their own in a group, and how to prevent themselves from relapsing into addiction. They are taught how to deal with emotions which were suppressed during the drugs use. Family therapy involving the addicts' parents, brothers and sisters is also offered. Sports and regular education are part of the programme.
No sex or drugs
The rules are strict in the clinic, and there is around-the-clock supervision. Supervisors not only stand by to help, but they are also checking whether the rules are respected. The children are not allowed to take any drugs, have sexual relationships or use violence. Anyone who breaks a rule is ejected from the clinic. You can only return if you accomplish a number of assignments.
Treatment in the clinic is deemed a success if both the addiction and a solution has been found for the underlying problems such as having drugs-addicted friends, or having a disfunctional relation with one's parents. After the stay in the centre, pupils will continue to get guidance and support for quite a while.
Rob Kievit
Radio Netherlands
Biased BS.
Don't believe a word of it.
As for cannabis being addictive, well let me put it this way, if you get addicted (by the way physical addiction is impossible) then you are probably a few plates missing from a crockery set and will suffer from addictions to all sorts of petty habits.
Problem is a cannabis addiction is a lot safer than getting addicted to gambling etc. So pushing these addict away from cannabis will more than likely drop them on a more damaging and potentially lethal addiction.
As for the stealing, cannabis does not make you forget the civil and moral values of society, as such if you are stealing you would do regardless of cannabis use and so thief's should be treated like thief's NOT excused, hugged and sent to rehab.
And a rehab which teaches societal values as rules creates dangerous people who think that these values mean nothing and can be ignored like rules.
"The Independent last Sunday ran a front page splash: “Cannabis – An Apology” was the headline. “In 1997, this newspaper launched a campaign to decriminalise the drug. If only we had known then what we can reveal today…Record numbers of teenagers are requiring drug treatment as a result of smoking skunk, the highly potent cannabis strain that is 25 times stronger than resin sold a decade ago.” Twice, in this story, cannabis is 25 times stronger than it was a decade ago. For Rosie Boycott, in her melodramatic recantation, skunk is “30 times stronger“. In one inside feature the strength issue is briefly downgraded to a “can”. It’s even referenced. “The Forensic Science Service says that in the early Nineties cannabis would contain around 1 per cent tetrahydrocannabidinol (THC), the mind-altering compound, but can now have up to 25 per cent.”
Well I’ve got the Forensic Science Service data right here in front of me, and the earlier data from the Laboratory of the Government Chemist, the United Nations Drug Control Program, and the European Union’s Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction. I happen to think that people are very well able to make their own minds up about important social issues when given true facts.
The Laboratory of the Government Chemist data goes from 1975 to 1989. Resin pootles around between 6% and 10% THC, herbal between 4% and 6%, with no clear trend.
The Forensic Science Service data then takes over to produce the more modern figures, showing not much change in resin, and domestically produced indoor herbal cannabis doubling in potency to around 12% or 14%. (2003-5 data in table under references).
The rising trend of cannabis potency is gradual, fairly unspectacular, and driven largely by the increased availability of intensively UK grown indoor herbal cannabis.
If you were in the mood, you could argue that intensive indoor cultivation of a plant that is very easy to cultivate outdoors is the cannabis industry’s reaction to the illegality itself. It is dangerous to import in large amounts. It is dangerous to be caught growing a field of it. So perhaps it makes more sense to grow it intensively indoors, producing a more concentrated product. There is little incentive, on the other hand, to produce a perversely strong skunk product for the mass market, since most people tend not to pay any more for unusually strong skunk.
There is, of course, exceptionally strong cannabis to be found in some parts of the UK market today: but there always has been. The United Nations Drug Control Program has detailed vintage data for the UK online. In 1975 the LGC analysed 50 seized samples of herbal cannabis: 10 were from Thailand, with an average potency of 7.8%, and the highest was 17%. In 1975 they analysed 11 samples of seized cannabis resin, 6 from morocco, average strength 9%, with a range from 4% to 16%.
To get their scare figure, The Independent have compared the worst cannabis from the past with the best cannabis of today. But you could have cooked the books in exactly the same way 30 years ago if you’d wanted: in 1975 the weakest herbal cannabis analysed was 0.2%; in 1978 the strongest herbal cannabis was 12%. Oh my god: in just 3 years herbal cannabis has become 60 times stronger.
And in fact, what’s most amazing is that this scare isn’t new. In the US, in the mid 1980s, during Reagan’s “war on drugs”, it was claimed that cannabis was 14 times stronger than in 1970, which rather sets you thinking. If it was 14 times stronger in 1986 than in 1970, and it’s 25 times stronger today than the beginning of the 1990s, does that mean it is now, in fact, 350 times stronger than 1970?
That’s not even a crystal in a plant pot. That’s impossible. That would require more THC to be present in the plant than the total volume of space taken up by the plant itself. That would require matter to be condensed. If I was a physics-minded branding manager, I would suggest Quark Gluon Plasma as the most appropriate street name for this substance: and I look forward to reading about the scare in the Independent tomorrow."
Ben Goldacre, badscience.net
Don't let the American Empire and it's propaganda machine fool you. The only time "marijuana addiction" numbers increase is when people are compelled by their parents, bosses, lawyers, judges, etc, to complete addiction counceling for getting caught with marijuana. Go out and see for yourselves. Do your own homework. Don't believe these tyrants.
This article is making a huge generalization and is extremely misleading. Cannabis is not physically addictive, it is mentally addictive and there is a huge difference. Anything can be mentally addictive to a person and it depends on the persons personality. Sugar sweets, playing videogames, checking facebook - all of these can be mentally addictive but there is nothing chemically changing in your body that makes you NEED any of these things, as opposed to heroin or cocaine.
The girl here understandably used cannabis as a crutch for her worries like her parents divorce, HOWEVER, most people who use cannabis, even heavy users, do not experience any addiction whatsoever and they can stop whenever they choose.
Apart from being an excellent and much safer alternative to alcohol as a recreational substance, cannabis also has incredible medicinal properties and more medical uses are being brought to light thanks to legitimate, not stifled, research.
This article at best is written by someone with a poor understanding of the concept of addiction and at worse is a poor attempt at scare tactics targetting uninformed readers.
Well said all you guys - I have rarely read such utter crap in all my life (well, not since the 70s in the UK when the scaremongering was almost word for word). And they wonder why violence is on the increase in the Netherlands...try telling the kids about the dangers of drink instead. Tragic to see the Netherlands lose all the freedoms and tolerance it fought so hard to regain after the war.
Fact of the matter is that any substance that you need on a daily basis, other than food and water, that causes you to have mood swings, shakes, or any other inability to function as you would normally, I would say is an addiction. I wouldn't build up even a daily coffee habit in a 13 year old. I grew up in the "hippie" generation and did my share of indulging and defended cannabis until I saw a few Dutch teens end up with psychoses - they used cannabis solely. Whether it's the THC content in the Netherweed or the much lowered age of serious need-build up, there is a real problem occurring. Like with any other substance, some kids can walk away from it and take it or leave it and others build up an addiction or worse, it chemically triggers something that leads to a psychosis.
Lorraine:
I forget the correct term for this scenario, but I believe it is something along the lines of correlation does not imply causation.
Just because a teen who smokes cannabis ends up developing psychosis or schizophrenia, it does NOT mean cannabis was the direct cause.
First of all, some teens are genetically predisposed to this especially when there is a family history. Second, there has already been proof that cannabis does not cause any increase in psychosis or schizophrenia, google it, you will find it easily. Third, if cannabis DID cause psychosis or any similar illness, I am surprised there are not tens of millions of people in the planet who use cannabis reporting any signs of these illnesses. Same issue with the gateway effect - if there are SO many smokers of cannabis, where are all those millions of heroin addicts?
Common sense...
Gustavo,
I agree, it is not the cause, but the trigger. Unfortunately cannabis remains at best quasi-legal. If it was totally legal, there would be a legal industry, regalations and health restrictions and warnings as with tobacco and alcohol. Cannabis is presented as a "soft drug" but soft as compared to what - heroin? Take for instance, coffee, which for all purposes is also a soft drug - a stimulant, however their are open dietary warnings (i.e. if you have heart trouble, glaucoma, etc. - you'd better watch your coffee intake). Currently cannabis is presented as totaaly harmless for all - this is not the case. Also leave out a potential psychosis, it is possible to build up a mental dependency over 30 years of long-term use, some people simply cannot walk away from cannabis. I certainly agree that this by no means is the majority, but why not regulate it and legalize it and openly list the THC %, as well as any potential dangers in combination with certain health issues on the back of a package just as with cigarettes?
Lorraine:
Like I said, it has already been shown that cannabis use does not cause any increase in becoming psychotic or schizophrenic. The trigger you are talking about is what happens with psychedelics such as psilocybin and LSD and even then it only happens if a person is _already_ genetically predisposed to such illnesses (the family has a history, etc).
I agree with what you say about putting THC% on the product. This is something recreational users would like and medicinal users would benefit from as well.
However, cannabis is not like tobacco and MUCH less not like cigarettes. Therefore, cannabis should not be treated like cigarettes, or alcohol for that matter, because there is a clear difference in health effects for its users. Either way, the government should not have any say into what people want to use as their recreational substance of choice regardless of health impacts, as long as it does not negatively and directly cause harm to another person. Sure they can try to convince them to do otherwise, but creating laws that do this is not the solution.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand, you said the following:
"and defended cannabis until I saw a few Dutch teens end up with psychoses"
So you defended cannabis but changed your mind when you saw that it supposedly caused psychosis in some teens? You can see otherwise by looking at cannabis users themselves - where are all the psychotic or schizophrenic cannabis users? Perhaps these teens were going to be psychotic anyways, and people blamed it on cannabis, which is not very uncommon. This to me seemed like you were against cannabis in general which is I responded the way I did.
Here's is the story on the supposed link between cannabis and schizophrenia/psychosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900
Also, even though its pretty rare (and the fact that most people who have been smoking cannabis for 30 years have no intention of quitting), who cares if it can cause a dependency? Tobacco kills 400,000 people a year and nabs even more people into nicotine addiction. The warnings on the cannabis products should reflect science, so, no "smoking cannabis may cause cancer, psychosis, schizophrenia" or any other myths.
The information on any potential cannabis packaging (should it ever be legalized) should reflect CONTENT - just like basically every other consumer product. Any warnings on packaging concerning potential harmful effects, i.e. \"not to use if...\" (we already have this information with so many products from medicinal drugs to foods), so why not here as well? Ultimately people decide for themselves.
Secondly I defended the soft drug cannabis since the 60s up until about 5 years ago. However, Dutch \"coffee shops\" were placed in close proximity to (junior) high schools thereby making cannabis accessible to 12, 13 and 14 year olds many of whom began to use daily. The drug-tolerant Dutch began noticing behavioural changes and Dutch clinics (such as Jellinek) began to receive increasingly lower-aged patients with psychoses triggered by cannabis. If you go back to PubMed and read through a few more scientific papers, you will find numerous articles on various studies concerning heavy cannabis use amongst adolescents. The international scientific community is researching the effects of the current THC quantity on this age group and it is suspected that present day cannabis is not as harmless as the weed in my generation. Studies are only beginning. I am not by any means saying that cannabis is the evil of all evils, but like with anything else it could very well be that cannabis is indeed just that for a certain group - it depends on your own body\'s chemistry. Up until now, cannabis has been given the \"green light\" as a soft drug without any harmful side effects. Are we so sure of this? There is much scientific research currentlylooking into this, especially in relationship to very young users. I for one, am very interested in reading the results of the various groups of researchers.
weed isnt addictive... this is not an addiction, rather humanities greed
Folks, you are fooling yourselves and ignoring one of the key elements that is sowing the seeds of your own destruction. Who do you think is making the money from the sale of all these legal and illegal drugs? A little research will quickly educate you that it is the same folks that have brought you prostitution, illegal gambling, and a host of other vices that have help to destroy the quality of Dutch life that existed prior to the 60;s. Anyone visiting Holland as I have year after year for the past 40 years has noted the breakdown in the society. Is it only drugs? Of course not. But social researchers will tell you that it plays a key part in that breakdown. When the police and legal system begin selective enforcement of the law you lead folks to pick and choose the laws they are willing to follow. With a society that is concerned now mainly with itself, self-actualization, etc. and not with the society's greater good, you get today's Holland which is not a pretty picture when examined closely. Between drugs, promiscuity thanks to the pill and unintelligent importantion of cultures that clash with the native population you have created a dynamo that is just beginning to consume you, but you party on. Check the immigrant birth stats against the native population's stats and see where you will be when the curtain of Sharia comes down by 2050. Enjoy the party while it lasts.
I hate hearing the word vrijheid when the people here always abused the freedom which was blindly legalised by the government here. Wether it is legal or not, drugs are used for medication to certain amt and shud be under control intake. If a child is taking drugs esp from teenage groups, that is a society problem. It rely scares me to hell the way some parent whom majority dont mind their kids started smoking and alcohol drinking at such age. Government have rules and majority rules are broken. Parent, i feel it is our duty as parent to monitor ur kids. Just couple of days ago on NY EVE, my neighbour son, a Dutch sweet young boy aged 12, was puffing not a cigarette but a cigar, i bet stolen from his dad who is a smoker himself. My 4 yrs old son who saw dat told him hey roken is niet goed en ongezond! Imagine i dun teach him but he saw himself with his own eyes his Oma sick and died eventually in her sleep. One of her reason is her refusal to quit smoking which affected her other ongoing illnesses, like losing her womb n other internal parts. Yet she continued to smoke and died a mth ago.
How do we feel esp my 4 yrs old son? Natuurlijk vreselijk. Triest that my son cudnt celebrate his Sinterklaas with his Oma n Xmas too. Im glad there is more campaign against smoking but i hope they will highlights abt how dangerous drugs n alcohol can do to whole society in this Earth, not to the Dutch alone..even in US as well. It has become a social disease. Hate the smell rely stinks when u passed by those guys or teenagers hanging out outside coffee shops here..
It's time in 2010 the government party do something abt it...truly sad seeing these promising youngsters falling apart without promising future esp in their studies..
What a disappointing load of tripe! I expect intelligent approaches to questions regarding cannabis when I access information from the Netherlands, not regurgitated propaganda to please the US/UN/UK axis. It's been increasingly difficult to ignore the axis-sycophantic tone Expatica adopts in its articles about cannabis for some time now. This one, though, really put them to shame. I shall cancel my subscription to this newsletter immediately.
Hi McD,
If you look at the credits you will see that this article was written and published by Radio Netherlands and not Expatica so you should approach Radio Netherlands World.
Natalia S.
That may be true, Nathalia, but the fact is Expatica chose to disseminate and consequently support it.
As I pointed out in my original post, this undercurrent of disapproval has been getting increasingly confident, even strident, in the articles Expatica has chosen to disseminate about cannabis recently. This may be an accurate (and very, very sad) reflection of the political climate in the Netherlands, but it's not something I really feel I need ask for to get. I feel I'm (and everyone else is) bombarded by more than enough such mindless, Axis-loving rubbish without asking for it to be delivered directly to my inbox, which is why I have unsubscribed from the Expatica newsletter.
I wouldn't approach Radio Netherlands World, or any other such supporter of this type of 'journalism' about their work, because I know all too well exactly why they produce it and how they regard critical appraisal of it, but thanks for the suggestion. Might I suggest you tactfully approach them about this yourselves? I would have thought they'd be far more likely to take you seriously than they would me.
As an example of something about the Netherlands' attitude to and policy on cannabis use which I would dearly love to see: a question I often ponder and would be fascinated to read about some brave journalist exploring - What is the experience of people using cannabis use for medicinal purposes there? Interview a couple of multiple sclerosis sufferers, for example, who swear by it.
In America, you see, prohibition is gradually crumbling under the pressure to allow the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes - 'medical marijuana', as they call it. As I understand it, this has been common in Holland for quite some time now: officially for medical reasons - with a doctor's prescription - for some years; and unofficially - suffers self-medicating with cannabis from coffeeshops - for more than thirty years. The Dutch experience here is unique and, I believe, something to be deeply proud of; but we so rarely hear anything about it. In fact, I can't recall having ever read such an article.
There are literally thousands, e.g. multiple sclerosis sufferers in the UK, whose afflictions are compounded many-fold by the complications of procuring cannabis of reliable quality, not to mention the risk of incarceration and other punishments, due to the Axis powers' vehement denial of any benefit of cannabis use - their inability to lose face. You should be able to find a journalist in the Netherlands who can write about medical cannabis users there while conveying a justified sense of pride about belonging to the society that was so advanced as to be the first to allow people the freedom required to heal themselves in this manner.
You may find a journalist there who could write a series of articles, conveying this justifiable feeling of pride, about the relationship between religious freedom, artistic freedom, etc. and cannabis use. Spewing out the same hackneyed DEA- and Home Office-approved rubbish as we get from government ministers and other such Axis lackies is not good journalism. It is the easy way out. As journalists, and those disseminating the work of people who consider themselves journalists, you should be as ashamed of hiding the Netherlands' attitude to cannabis as you should be proud of it - deeply.
There are people in other countries who consider themselves less fortunate, who look to the Netherlands as a beacon shining a light of hope in a world that is so terribly dark everywhere else. You should stop trying to hide your achievements for fear of intense pressure exerted by the Axis to bring the Netherlands in line, particularly now as their indefensible defenses begin to crumble; stand up and say with pride and conviction, 'Yes, we knew that all along. We were right then, we are right now and we will always be right about this.' Because it's true and writing truthfully is more important than appeasing bullies.
But, as a journalist, you must know that, so there's nothing I can teach you or Radio Free Netherlands or the Voice of America or the BBC about it.
You would be surprised how many people do suffer from marijuana addiction, I hear from loads of people who have this problem. I had it myself, you would be surprised on the effect it can have. Many people find it a big problem, but like many other drugs it’s not to say that everybody who uses them becomes addicted, like many other drugs some do and some don’t.
I think if you feel you need to do it and find it a problem not to do so, then that’s some kind of addiction or habit or something, what you want to label it is just semantics. The bottom line is if you feel you have to do it whether you like it or not, then that is some kind of a problem.
http://www.forummatters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/16-Cannabis-Weed-Pot-Marijuana-Addiction
You're quite right, "...some do and some don't." I've had a good look at the link you provide (to 'forummatters.com'). I'm not really sure what to make of this addiction question. I've experiened several addictions, money and nicotine being the most obvious and difficult. Money, I'm afraid, I still haven't mangaged to crack, but I have overcome nicotine, so I know what addiction is and how difficult it can be to sort out. Fortunatley, I've never been stupid enough to suffer alcohol addiction; bloody horrible, disgusting, moronic drug - so unlike cannabis.
There are obiously some people who are quite convinced they suffer from cannabis addiction. I've used cannabis since 1977, sometimes every day for months on end, sometimes once or twice a year. There was a period of more than a decade - from 1994 to 2004 - when I didn't use any cannabis at all and never thought anything of it, or what little I did think of it would have been much like anyone else who thinks little of cannabis.
Due to an experience with anti-depressants, I realised my use of cannabis was unconcious self-medication. You see, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1988. When I experienced withdrawal symptoms from anti-depressants which were exactly the same as the most alarming symptoms of MS I had experienced more than twenty years previously, then I started looking into the relationship between the ENS (endocannabinoid system) and the CNS (central nervous system) more carefully. Then I understood I'd sought out and used cannabis in much the same way as a cat will eat grass when it's got an upset stomach - it's instinctive.
For many teenagers the most addictive thing about cannabis is the opportunity to rebel and regard themselves as 'free thinkers' by doing so. Then it becomes a matter of principle, 'It's my right to manipulate my body chemistry in whatever manner I feel appropriate.' The teenager gets stubborn, digs in his heels and it's all the fault of cannabis. What I can see in a lot of those posts at 'forummatters' is prohibiton causing a problem for cannabis users. That's not to say there aren't many there who genuinely suffer as a result of using (too much) cannabis, but I think the real suffering is more often a result of prohibiton than anything to do with cannabis in its own right. How many of those posts would be irrelevant if cannabis was regulated like the monkey drug (alcohol)? If cannabis were dealt with like any other such substance (But not alcohol. Cannabis is nothing like alcohol.) then councelling and treatment could be determined and offered to those who genuinely suffer from misue of cannabis. In most cases, I think we'll find the problems are of an emotional/psycho-sexual nature. But this is really all beside the point.
My point about the Dutch attitude to cannabis stands: 'Why can't you take pride in your remarkable ability to see through the lies and deception supported and spread nearly unanimously under (US/UN/UK) Axis leadership and take pride in having withstood the intense pressure exerted on you to fall into line?' Particularly now as the edifice of prohibiton crumbles before our eyes. Obviously, no-one would be very happy about the Dutch rubbing everyone else's noses in the mess, saying, 'See, we told you so. We were right all along.' (Except for me, perhaps; methinks I'd rather enjoy that.) It would, however, be quite justified and appropriate for the Dutch to now make use of their unique experience to help others who have so far been unable to throw off or ignore the Axis yoke. Actually, it seems to me the Netherlands' responsibility - even duty before God or fate or destiny or the patron saint of Sense in the Face of Nonsense, or whatever you want to call whatever it is that enables such invaluable and rare opportunities to be and experience, to live and learn - to use their unique experience in helping others who are now finally catching up to the stage of social evolution Holland reached with its Opium Act in 1976.
What an awkward position the Netherlands is in, having been subject to such intense pressure to fall in line from the Axis for so long, and having actually managed to stand by what they knew, and transpired to be, correct. What we're seeing in the Netherlands is exactly what one would expect: now that they are in a position to accept kudos for their mature, competent handling of drugs, they seem reluctant to antagonise others by saying, 'Told you so.' And they have no need to. This is exactly what should be expected from someone who feels confident enough in their decision without needing to seek support from elsewhere. Had things turned out differently and it had transpired that cannabis is as dangerous as meth or crack or alcohol, then perhaps they would be grasping at straws to save face, like so many others - the prohibitionists - are now doing.
Still, I think it would be better - more responsible - for the Netherlands to play a more active role in ushering out this overfed, puffed up, psuedo-moralistic and rapidly imploding social policy of cannabis prohibition and use their experience to help us settle into our future relationship with the herb. Otherwise it's just the blind leading the blind. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King. Don't be shy. Use the vision which saved the Netherlands from the atrocities of cannabis prohibition - and make no mistake, terrible atrocities have been commited in the name of prohibition - and help, please. Just say now! Please!
Hi MCD
Yeah it’s a tough one when it comes to cannabis because everybody can have such a very different experience with it, it messed me up pretty badly but I think I may have had a reaction that some people can have to drugs that are a bit trippy, I think I may have suffered some kind of depersonalisation like symptoms, I have heard from others on the forum that have experienced a similar sort of thing, here is a example:
http://www.forummatters.com/forums/showthread.php/1730-Please-Help-i-am-confused-Marijuana-Dissociative-Depersonalization-Disorder
But I am not saying that this is the norm, it may just be a relatively small number of us, but it may happen to some. If there’s one thing I have learned on the effects that various drugs can have on the body including the brain, is that there are those who aren’t affected too badly and those that they can really mess up, when it comes to the brain some people are much more vulnerable than others, as I always say it’s extremely important to monitor how you are reacting to any drug you are taking and if it’s not agreeing with you recognising it early on and stop. In terms of the addiction thing again people have such different experiences, you have been able to abstain from cannabis for long periods of time and didn’t really find it a problem, others on my forum experience intensive sweating, insomnia, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, strong cravings, ect, ect the list goes on and on and it can be different for everybody, there are hundreds of posts like it, do I think that they are lying because you have not experienced it, no, do I think you are lying because they have, no, do I think we may all have a different predisposition to getting addicted to different things much of which may actually be inherited and can all have very different experiences with various drugs, most probably yes. I have read a number of times that the amount of users of marijuana that eventually go on to feel that they are dependent on it is around 10 percent. Unfortunately all this is something that both the pro and the anti often completely over look and is something I am always having to say to people, so many people just aren’t aware that we can all react to different chemicals very differently, that’s why drug companies have to list about a million different side effects in those little leaflets people get with their pills but almost never read, as you can guarantee someone somewhere has experienced it, I think it’s something called pharmacokinetics or something like that, basically how our bodies react to different drugs, anyway it will probably be a big part of medicine in the future. Anyway I will wrap it up there as I think I am starting to ramble. For the record I think locking people up or giving them a criminal conviction for using marijuana is the last thing we should probably be doing, I think that probably goes for most drugs, I see drugs as a public health issue that people deserve to be warned of the potential dangers of, but not criminalised for.
Anyway the main thing is for both sides to have a grown up conversation about it and to try to take a balanced view.
Many thanks
Peace and love
Well, BFB, I didn't say I hadn't experienced problems using cannabis. In the immortal words of the beautifully eloquent Rab C. Nesbitt, 'My fears would give your fears the shits!' Indeed, during my decade of abstinence, I had no doubt I was one of the unfortunates whose reactions to the drug were terrifyingly dramatic. In fact, I thought I must be the only one. When I used to get stoned as a boy, one of the things that baffled me most about the experience was how the hell the people who I'd got stoned with could sit around acting as if nothing had happened to them. I couldn't understand how they could possibly act so normal when I was so definitely not. I assumed there must just be something wrong with me.
When I came home to cannabis (the proper, grown-up word for 'marijuana', which was a word made up by prohibitionists about eighty years ago to demonise cannabis) in 2004, I experienced hallucinations and loss of coronary control which felt as if my body had been possessed and was being controlled by some enormously powerful force - a power beyond human comprehension - which was aided and abetted by a gang of subservient and invisible elves. It was full-blown psychosis, alright - no two ways about it - not just a simple 'anxiety attack'. Unbelievably terrifying it is to lie in bed and witness something else take control of your heart, speeding it up until it should burst while you're incapbable of calming it down. You think you've sweated in your sleep? My mattress was soaked. And most disturbingly, there was blood on the sheet which could only have come out of one place - my guts. Then there are the helpers - the elves who chatter away just beyond your comprehension, knowing that you are aware of them and revelling in the recognition they're getting from you, working away on your throat and other chakras. The word 'terror' doesn't do the experience justice, nor does 'fear and loathing' adequately describe life during the days, weeks and, to a lesser extent, months after. That was around about the autumnal equinox. It took me several years to put together an understanding to come to terms and live in peace with it.
Again, in the first instance, I must thank the Netherlands for enabling me to do so. You see, during that long, dark winter of 2004/2005, I'd regained a sense of balance and determined to find out what was wrong with me. I realised no doctor or scientific understanding would help. I'd already spent many years exploring religion(s). I found out about Ayahuasca (See http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html for a good, basic description.) and decided I must use it. To cut a long story short, it worked. If it weren't for the Netherlands' unique tolerance which allows people to access chemicals at their discretion, Ayahuasca wouldn't have been an option for me and I might still be in the dark place where I'd been before. This isn't the most appropriate place to recall the details, so I'll sum up by saying Ayahuasca enabled me to understand the relationship between plants, or nature in more general terms, and humans together with the significance of each. We're not half as important as we might like to believe and cannabis offers a unique means of integrating or incorporating the human psyche into the environment. It's complicated (yet so simple). You'll just have to take my word for it. (Hurray - no science here!)
Actually, there is something else I found to be of great help, which you might also like to try: I read on your board about how you try taking vitamins to help you feel better. I tried the opposite - fasting. It was something I'd wanted to do for many years, but had never managed. During the week before Easter Sunday, 2005, I ate nothing, drinking only water. It was difficult, but it was a start. For the next couple of years I would spend a week, ten days or a fortnight fasting once every three of four months. My record is from 21:12 (the full moon) on 7 June to 12:21 (the full moon) on 7 July 2009. I haven't felt the need since then. It was 2006, by the way, when I spent the month of July camping at het Amsterdamse Bos, cycling (I love Holland!) and attending ceremonies at the Santo Daime church. So, if you really want to find out why you react to cannabis as you do, I would suggest learning how to fast and then getting in touch with the Santo Daime.
I can't really say I've experienced 'mental fog', as you and others describe it, as a result of using cannabis. I will, however, admit that I'm not as bright or clever - not as sharp or quick - as I used to be. And my memory fails me more and more. This might simply be the result of ageing, but I don't rule out the possibility that cannabis has something to do with it. It could also be Multiple Sclerosis, which as I've already mentioned, I was diagnosed with in 1988. I don't mind. Fortunately, I don't need to be any sharper or quicker than I am.
As for addiction... Well, I did an interesting experiment this summer: having smoked every day for several months, I left my gear at home when I went on holiday for three weeks. I'm glad to be able to report I didn't experience any cravings or other such 'classic' signs of addiction. I did, however, have terrible trouble sleeping. That's the only thing I could say is a really difficult part of cannabis cessation for me now: it becomes quite impossible to sleep more than a couple of hours at night and then the next day, naturally, is a struggle to get through. Once cannabis is legal and open to research (Not long now!) I'm sure we'll learn how to juggle cannabinoids to overcome this effect. I'm sure there are plenty of people in California, for example, who have mastered this already. So, would I include myself among your ten percent who come to say they are dependent on cannabis? Yes, I would, because I am, but I don't have a problem with that. I could have a problem with the law, but that's a human aberration or perversion of nature and there's not much I can do about it. I don't think I have any more trouble with my cannabis dependence, apart from the law, than a type I diabetic has with insulin dependence.
So, in summary, BHB, I'd like to suggest that running away from cannabis use might not always be the most satisfactory solution. Sure, it may ameliorate some symptoms in the short term, but it's not really doing anything to get to the root cause or the reason why the organism found its use necessary in the first place. In my experience, if you really want to find out why you are the way you are, you've got to roll up your sleeves, grit your teeth, force you way through your fears - always bearing in mind, of course, that your fears would give anyone else's fears the shits - and dive right down deep and headfirst into the cesspit of your soul where you may be overcome by demons and drown in the foul mess you may have made of your life.
Just one more thing: I agree with you about how people's predisposition to the effects of cannabis use differ and vary. As far as I'm aware, I've never actually met anyone who is subject to such dramatic effects as I am, but I can see from places like your board that they do exist. Though most people like me probably go through their entire lives thinking of it as a curse, if you're really lucky, you may begin to understand and recognise it as a blessing. It's a gift.
Good luck!
This is a well written, concise and well researched article. Well done to the author. When I used to smoke dope at college (of course I didn't inhale, m'lud) I never thought it had negative effects or was addictive. Luckily I gave up in time to get on with my life but it's shocking to see how much more powerful the evil weed is nowadays. I now work for a Scottish drug and rehab clinic (http://www.castlecraig.co.uk) and we get lots of polite and good looking addicts from The Netherlands, but I'm not sure we've had any marijuana addicts yet. But thanks for warning us about the risks.
Biased BS.
Don't believe a word of it.
As for cannabis being addictive, well let me put it this way, if you get addicted (by the way physical addiction is impossible) then you are probably a few plates missing from a crockery set and will suffer from addictions to all sorts of petty habits.
Problem is a cannabis addiction is a lot safer than getting addicted to gambling etc. So pushing these addict away from cannabis will more than likely drop them on a more damaging and potentially lethal addiction.
As for the stealing, cannabis does not make you forget the civil and moral values of society, as such if you are stealing you would do regardless of cannabis use and so thief's should be treated like thief's NOT excused, hugged and sent to rehab.
And a rehab which teaches societal values as rules creates dangerous people who think that these values mean nothing and can be ignored like rules.
"The Independent last Sunday ran a front page splash: “Cannabis – An Apology” was the headline. “In 1997, this newspaper launched a campaign to decriminalise the drug. If only we had known then what we can reveal today…Record numbers of teenagers are requiring drug treatment as a result of smoking skunk, the highly potent cannabis strain that is 25 times stronger than resin sold a decade ago.” Twice, in this story, cannabis is 25 times stronger than it was a decade ago. For Rosie Boycott, in her melodramatic recantation, skunk is “30 times stronger“. In one inside feature the strength issue is briefly downgraded to a “can”. It’s even referenced. “The Forensic Science Service says that in the early Nineties cannabis would contain around 1 per cent tetrahydrocannabidinol (THC), the mind-altering compound, but can now have up to 25 per cent.”
Well I’ve got the Forensic Science Service data right here in front of me, and the earlier data from the Laboratory of the Government Chemist, the United Nations Drug Control Program, and the European Union’s Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction. I happen to think that people are very well able to make their own minds up about important social issues when given true facts.
The Laboratory of the Government Chemist data goes from 1975 to 1989. Resin pootles around between 6% and 10% THC, herbal between 4% and 6%, with no clear trend.
The Forensic Science Service data then takes over to produce the more modern figures, showing not much change in resin, and domestically produced indoor herbal cannabis doubling in potency to around 12% or 14%. (2003-5 data in table under references).
The rising trend of cannabis potency is gradual, fairly unspectacular, and driven largely by the increased availability of intensively UK grown indoor herbal cannabis.
If you were in the mood, you could argue that intensive indoor cultivation of a plant that is very easy to cultivate outdoors is the cannabis industry’s reaction to the illegality itself. It is dangerous to import in large amounts. It is dangerous to be caught growing a field of it. So perhaps it makes more sense to grow it intensively indoors, producing a more concentrated product. There is little incentive, on the other hand, to produce a perversely strong skunk product for the mass market, since most people tend not to pay any more for unusually strong skunk.
There is, of course, exceptionally strong cannabis to be found in some parts of the UK market today: but there always has been. The United Nations Drug Control Program has detailed vintage data for the UK online. In 1975 the LGC analysed 50 seized samples of herbal cannabis: 10 were from Thailand, with an average potency of 7.8%, and the highest was 17%. In 1975 they analysed 11 samples of seized cannabis resin, 6 from morocco, average strength 9%, with a range from 4% to 16%.
To get their scare figure, The Independent have compared the worst cannabis from the past with the best cannabis of today. But you could have cooked the books in exactly the same way 30 years ago if you’d wanted: in 1975 the weakest herbal cannabis analysed was 0.2%; in 1978 the strongest herbal cannabis was 12%. Oh my god: in just 3 years herbal cannabis has become 60 times stronger.
And in fact, what’s most amazing is that this scare isn’t new. In the US, in the mid 1980s, during Reagan’s “war on drugs”, it was claimed that cannabis was 14 times stronger than in 1970, which rather sets you thinking. If it was 14 times stronger in 1986 than in 1970, and it’s 25 times stronger today than the beginning of the 1990s, does that mean it is now, in fact, 350 times stronger than 1970?
That’s not even a crystal in a plant pot. That’s impossible. That would require more THC to be present in the plant than the total volume of space taken up by the plant itself. That would require matter to be condensed. If I was a physics-minded branding manager, I would suggest Quark Gluon Plasma as the most appropriate street name for this substance: and I look forward to reading about the scare in the Independent tomorrow."
Ben Goldacre, badscience.net
Don't let the American Empire and it's propaganda machine fool you. The only time "marijuana addiction" numbers increase is when people are compelled by their parents, bosses, lawyers, judges, etc, to complete addiction counceling for getting caught with marijuana. Go out and see for yourselves. Do your own homework. Don't believe these tyrants.
This article is making a huge generalization and is extremely misleading. Cannabis is not physically addictive, it is mentally addictive and there is a huge difference. Anything can be mentally addictive to a person and it depends on the persons personality. Sugar sweets, playing videogames, checking facebook - all of these can be mentally addictive but there is nothing chemically changing in your body that makes you NEED any of these things, as opposed to heroin or cocaine.
The girl here understandably used cannabis as a crutch for her worries like her parents divorce, HOWEVER, most people who use cannabis, even heavy users, do not experience any addiction whatsoever and they can stop whenever they choose.
Apart from being an excellent and much safer alternative to alcohol as a recreational substance, cannabis also has incredible medicinal properties and more medical uses are being brought to light thanks to legitimate, not stifled, research.
This article at best is written by someone with a poor understanding of the concept of addiction and at worse is a poor attempt at scare tactics targetting uninformed readers.
Well said all you guys - I have rarely read such utter crap in all my life (well, not since the 70s in the UK when the scaremongering was almost word for word). And they wonder why violence is on the increase in the Netherlands...try telling the kids about the dangers of drink instead. Tragic to see the Netherlands lose all the freedoms and tolerance it fought so hard to regain after the war.
Fact of the matter is that any substance that you need on a daily basis, other than food and water, that causes you to have mood swings, shakes, or any other inability to function as you would normally, I would say is an addiction. I wouldn't build up even a daily coffee habit in a 13 year old. I grew up in the "hippie" generation and did my share of indulging and defended cannabis until I saw a few Dutch teens end up with psychoses - they used cannabis solely. Whether it's the THC content in the Netherweed or the much lowered age of serious need-build up, there is a real problem occurring. Like with any other substance, some kids can walk away from it and take it or leave it and others build up an addiction or worse, it chemically triggers something that leads to a psychosis.
Lorraine:
I forget the correct term for this scenario, but I believe it is something along the lines of correlation does not imply causation.
Just because a teen who smokes cannabis ends up developing psychosis or schizophrenia, it does NOT mean cannabis was the direct cause.
First of all, some teens are genetically predisposed to this especially when there is a family history. Second, there has already been proof that cannabis does not cause any increase in psychosis or schizophrenia, google it, you will find it easily. Third, if cannabis DID cause psychosis or any similar illness, I am surprised there are not tens of millions of people in the planet who use cannabis reporting any signs of these illnesses. Same issue with the gateway effect - if there are SO many smokers of cannabis, where are all those millions of heroin addicts?
Common sense...
Gustavo,
I agree, it is not the cause, but the trigger. Unfortunately cannabis remains at best quasi-legal. If it was totally legal, there would be a legal industry, regalations and health restrictions and warnings as with tobacco and alcohol. Cannabis is presented as a "soft drug" but soft as compared to what - heroin? Take for instance, coffee, which for all purposes is also a soft drug - a stimulant, however their are open dietary warnings (i.e. if you have heart trouble, glaucoma, etc. - you'd better watch your coffee intake). Currently cannabis is presented as totaaly harmless for all - this is not the case. Also leave out a potential psychosis, it is possible to build up a mental dependency over 30 years of long-term use, some people simply cannot walk away from cannabis. I certainly agree that this by no means is the majority, but why not regulate it and legalize it and openly list the THC %, as well as any potential dangers in combination with certain health issues on the back of a package just as with cigarettes?
Lorraine:
Like I said, it has already been shown that cannabis use does not cause any increase in becoming psychotic or schizophrenic. The trigger you are talking about is what happens with psychedelics such as psilocybin and LSD and even then it only happens if a person is _already_ genetically predisposed to such illnesses (the family has a history, etc).
I agree with what you say about putting THC% on the product. This is something recreational users would like and medicinal users would benefit from as well.
However, cannabis is not like tobacco and MUCH less not like cigarettes. Therefore, cannabis should not be treated like cigarettes, or alcohol for that matter, because there is a clear difference in health effects for its users. Either way, the government should not have any say into what people want to use as their recreational substance of choice regardless of health impacts, as long as it does not negatively and directly cause harm to another person. Sure they can try to convince them to do otherwise, but creating laws that do this is not the solution.
Anyways, back to the topic at hand, you said the following:
"and defended cannabis until I saw a few Dutch teens end up with psychoses"
So you defended cannabis but changed your mind when you saw that it supposedly caused psychosis in some teens? You can see otherwise by looking at cannabis users themselves - where are all the psychotic or schizophrenic cannabis users? Perhaps these teens were going to be psychotic anyways, and people blamed it on cannabis, which is not very uncommon. This to me seemed like you were against cannabis in general which is I responded the way I did.
Here's is the story on the supposed link between cannabis and schizophrenia/psychosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900
Also, even though its pretty rare (and the fact that most people who have been smoking cannabis for 30 years have no intention of quitting), who cares if it can cause a dependency? Tobacco kills 400,000 people a year and nabs even more people into nicotine addiction. The warnings on the cannabis products should reflect science, so, no "smoking cannabis may cause cancer, psychosis, schizophrenia" or any other myths.
The information on any potential cannabis packaging (should it ever be legalized) should reflect CONTENT - just like basically every other consumer product. Any warnings on packaging concerning potential harmful effects, i.e. \"not to use if...\" (we already have this information with so many products from medicinal drugs to foods), so why not here as well? Ultimately people decide for themselves.
Secondly I defended the soft drug cannabis since the 60s up until about 5 years ago. However, Dutch \"coffee shops\" were placed in close proximity to (junior) high schools thereby making cannabis accessible to 12, 13 and 14 year olds many of whom began to use daily. The drug-tolerant Dutch began noticing behavioural changes and Dutch clinics (such as Jellinek) began to receive increasingly lower-aged patients with psychoses triggered by cannabis. If you go back to PubMed and read through a few more scientific papers, you will find numerous articles on various studies concerning heavy cannabis use amongst adolescents. The international scientific community is researching the effects of the current THC quantity on this age group and it is suspected that present day cannabis is not as harmless as the weed in my generation. Studies are only beginning. I am not by any means saying that cannabis is the evil of all evils, but like with anything else it could very well be that cannabis is indeed just that for a certain group - it depends on your own body\'s chemistry. Up until now, cannabis has been given the \"green light\" as a soft drug without any harmful side effects. Are we so sure of this? There is much scientific research currentlylooking into this, especially in relationship to very young users. I for one, am very interested in reading the results of the various groups of researchers.
weed isnt addictive... this is not an addiction, rather humanities greed
Folks, you are fooling yourselves and ignoring one of the key elements that is sowing the seeds of your own destruction. Who do you think is making the money from the sale of all these legal and illegal drugs? A little research will quickly educate you that it is the same folks that have brought you prostitution, illegal gambling, and a host of other vices that have help to destroy the quality of Dutch life that existed prior to the 60;s. Anyone visiting Holland as I have year after year for the past 40 years has noted the breakdown in the society. Is it only drugs? Of course not. But social researchers will tell you that it plays a key part in that breakdown. When the police and legal system begin selective enforcement of the law you lead folks to pick and choose the laws they are willing to follow. With a society that is concerned now mainly with itself, self-actualization, etc. and not with the society's greater good, you get today's Holland which is not a pretty picture when examined closely. Between drugs, promiscuity thanks to the pill and unintelligent importantion of cultures that clash with the native population you have created a dynamo that is just beginning to consume you, but you party on. Check the immigrant birth stats against the native population's stats and see where you will be when the curtain of Sharia comes down by 2050. Enjoy the party while it lasts.
I hate hearing the word vrijheid when the people here always abused the freedom which was blindly legalised by the government here. Wether it is legal or not, drugs are used for medication to certain amt and shud be under control intake. If a child is taking drugs esp from teenage groups, that is a society problem. It rely scares me to hell the way some parent whom majority dont mind their kids started smoking and alcohol drinking at such age. Government have rules and majority rules are broken. Parent, i feel it is our duty as parent to monitor ur kids. Just couple of days ago on NY EVE, my neighbour son, a Dutch sweet young boy aged 12, was puffing not a cigarette but a cigar, i bet stolen from his dad who is a smoker himself. My 4 yrs old son who saw dat told him hey roken is niet goed en ongezond! Imagine i dun teach him but he saw himself with his own eyes his Oma sick and died eventually in her sleep. One of her reason is her refusal to quit smoking which affected her other ongoing illnesses, like losing her womb n other internal parts. Yet she continued to smoke and died a mth ago.
How do we feel esp my 4 yrs old son? Natuurlijk vreselijk. Triest that my son cudnt celebrate his Sinterklaas with his Oma n Xmas too. Im glad there is more campaign against smoking but i hope they will highlights abt how dangerous drugs n alcohol can do to whole society in this Earth, not to the Dutch alone..even in US as well. It has become a social disease. Hate the smell rely stinks when u passed by those guys or teenagers hanging out outside coffee shops here..
It's time in 2010 the government party do something abt it...truly sad seeing these promising youngsters falling apart without promising future esp in their studies..
What a disappointing load of tripe! I expect intelligent approaches to questions regarding cannabis when I access information from the Netherlands, not regurgitated propaganda to please the US/UN/UK axis. It's been increasingly difficult to ignore the axis-sycophantic tone Expatica adopts in its articles about cannabis for some time now. This one, though, really put them to shame. I shall cancel my subscription to this newsletter immediately.
Hi McD,
If you look at the credits you will see that this article was written and published by Radio Netherlands and not Expatica so you should approach Radio Netherlands World.
Natalia S.
That may be true, Nathalia, but the fact is Expatica chose to disseminate and consequently support it.
As I pointed out in my original post, this undercurrent of disapproval has been getting increasingly confident, even strident, in the articles Expatica has chosen to disseminate about cannabis recently. This may be an accurate (and very, very sad) reflection of the political climate in the Netherlands, but it's not something I really feel I need ask for to get. I feel I'm (and everyone else is) bombarded by more than enough such mindless, Axis-loving rubbish without asking for it to be delivered directly to my inbox, which is why I have unsubscribed from the Expatica newsletter.
I wouldn't approach Radio Netherlands World, or any other such supporter of this type of 'journalism' about their work, because I know all too well exactly why they produce it and how they regard critical appraisal of it, but thanks for the suggestion. Might I suggest you tactfully approach them about this yourselves? I would have thought they'd be far more likely to take you seriously than they would me.
As an example of something about the Netherlands' attitude to and policy on cannabis use which I would dearly love to see: a question I often ponder and would be fascinated to read about some brave journalist exploring - What is the experience of people using cannabis use for medicinal purposes there? Interview a couple of multiple sclerosis sufferers, for example, who swear by it.
In America, you see, prohibition is gradually crumbling under the pressure to allow the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes - 'medical marijuana', as they call it. As I understand it, this has been common in Holland for quite some time now: officially for medical reasons - with a doctor's prescription - for some years; and unofficially - suffers self-medicating with cannabis from coffeeshops - for more than thirty years. The Dutch experience here is unique and, I believe, something to be deeply proud of; but we so rarely hear anything about it. In fact, I can't recall having ever read such an article.
There are literally thousands, e.g. multiple sclerosis sufferers in the UK, whose afflictions are compounded many-fold by the complications of procuring cannabis of reliable quality, not to mention the risk of incarceration and other punishments, due to the Axis powers' vehement denial of any benefit of cannabis use - their inability to lose face. You should be able to find a journalist in the Netherlands who can write about medical cannabis users there while conveying a justified sense of pride about belonging to the society that was so advanced as to be the first to allow people the freedom required to heal themselves in this manner.
You may find a journalist there who could write a series of articles, conveying this justifiable feeling of pride, about the relationship between religious freedom, artistic freedom, etc. and cannabis use. Spewing out the same hackneyed DEA- and Home Office-approved rubbish as we get from government ministers and other such Axis lackies is not good journalism. It is the easy way out. As journalists, and those disseminating the work of people who consider themselves journalists, you should be as ashamed of hiding the Netherlands' attitude to cannabis as you should be proud of it - deeply.
There are people in other countries who consider themselves less fortunate, who look to the Netherlands as a beacon shining a light of hope in a world that is so terribly dark everywhere else. You should stop trying to hide your achievements for fear of intense pressure exerted by the Axis to bring the Netherlands in line, particularly now as their indefensible defenses begin to crumble; stand up and say with pride and conviction, 'Yes, we knew that all along. We were right then, we are right now and we will always be right about this.' Because it's true and writing truthfully is more important than appeasing bullies.
But, as a journalist, you must know that, so there's nothing I can teach you or Radio Free Netherlands or the Voice of America or the BBC about it.
You would be surprised how many people do suffer from marijuana addiction, I hear from loads of people who have this problem. I had it myself, you would be surprised on the effect it can have. Many people find it a big problem, but like many other drugs it’s not to say that everybody who uses them becomes addicted, like many other drugs some do and some don’t.
I think if you feel you need to do it and find it a problem not to do so, then that’s some kind of addiction or habit or something, what you want to label it is just semantics. The bottom line is if you feel you have to do it whether you like it or not, then that is some kind of a problem.
http://www.forummatters.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/16-Cannabis-Weed-Pot-Marijuana-Addiction
You're quite right, "...some do and some don't." I've had a good look at the link you provide (to 'forummatters.com'). I'm not really sure what to make of this addiction question. I've experiened several addictions, money and nicotine being the most obvious and difficult. Money, I'm afraid, I still haven't mangaged to crack, but I have overcome nicotine, so I know what addiction is and how difficult it can be to sort out. Fortunatley, I've never been stupid enough to suffer alcohol addiction; bloody horrible, disgusting, moronic drug - so unlike cannabis.
There are obiously some people who are quite convinced they suffer from cannabis addiction. I've used cannabis since 1977, sometimes every day for months on end, sometimes once or twice a year. There was a period of more than a decade - from 1994 to 2004 - when I didn't use any cannabis at all and never thought anything of it, or what little I did think of it would have been much like anyone else who thinks little of cannabis.
Due to an experience with anti-depressants, I realised my use of cannabis was unconcious self-medication. You see, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 1988. When I experienced withdrawal symptoms from anti-depressants which were exactly the same as the most alarming symptoms of MS I had experienced more than twenty years previously, then I started looking into the relationship between the ENS (endocannabinoid system) and the CNS (central nervous system) more carefully. Then I understood I'd sought out and used cannabis in much the same way as a cat will eat grass when it's got an upset stomach - it's instinctive.
For many teenagers the most addictive thing about cannabis is the opportunity to rebel and regard themselves as 'free thinkers' by doing so. Then it becomes a matter of principle, 'It's my right to manipulate my body chemistry in whatever manner I feel appropriate.' The teenager gets stubborn, digs in his heels and it's all the fault of cannabis. What I can see in a lot of those posts at 'forummatters' is prohibiton causing a problem for cannabis users. That's not to say there aren't many there who genuinely suffer as a result of using (too much) cannabis, but I think the real suffering is more often a result of prohibiton than anything to do with cannabis in its own right. How many of those posts would be irrelevant if cannabis was regulated like the monkey drug (alcohol)? If cannabis were dealt with like any other such substance (But not alcohol. Cannabis is nothing like alcohol.) then councelling and treatment could be determined and offered to those who genuinely suffer from misue of cannabis. In most cases, I think we'll find the problems are of an emotional/psycho-sexual nature. But this is really all beside the point.
My point about the Dutch attitude to cannabis stands: 'Why can't you take pride in your remarkable ability to see through the lies and deception supported and spread nearly unanimously under (US/UN/UK) Axis leadership and take pride in having withstood the intense pressure exerted on you to fall into line?' Particularly now as the edifice of prohibiton crumbles before our eyes. Obviously, no-one would be very happy about the Dutch rubbing everyone else's noses in the mess, saying, 'See, we told you so. We were right all along.' (Except for me, perhaps; methinks I'd rather enjoy that.) It would, however, be quite justified and appropriate for the Dutch to now make use of their unique experience to help others who have so far been unable to throw off or ignore the Axis yoke. Actually, it seems to me the Netherlands' responsibility - even duty before God or fate or destiny or the patron saint of Sense in the Face of Nonsense, or whatever you want to call whatever it is that enables such invaluable and rare opportunities to be and experience, to live and learn - to use their unique experience in helping others who are now finally catching up to the stage of social evolution Holland reached with its Opium Act in 1976.
What an awkward position the Netherlands is in, having been subject to such intense pressure to fall in line from the Axis for so long, and having actually managed to stand by what they knew, and transpired to be, correct. What we're seeing in the Netherlands is exactly what one would expect: now that they are in a position to accept kudos for their mature, competent handling of drugs, they seem reluctant to antagonise others by saying, 'Told you so.' And they have no need to. This is exactly what should be expected from someone who feels confident enough in their decision without needing to seek support from elsewhere. Had things turned out differently and it had transpired that cannabis is as dangerous as meth or crack or alcohol, then perhaps they would be grasping at straws to save face, like so many others - the prohibitionists - are now doing.
Still, I think it would be better - more responsible - for the Netherlands to play a more active role in ushering out this overfed, puffed up, psuedo-moralistic and rapidly imploding social policy of cannabis prohibition and use their experience to help us settle into our future relationship with the herb. Otherwise it's just the blind leading the blind. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King. Don't be shy. Use the vision which saved the Netherlands from the atrocities of cannabis prohibition - and make no mistake, terrible atrocities have been commited in the name of prohibition - and help, please. Just say now! Please!
Hi MCD
Yeah it’s a tough one when it comes to cannabis because everybody can have such a very different experience with it, it messed me up pretty badly but I think I may have had a reaction that some people can have to drugs that are a bit trippy, I think I may have suffered some kind of depersonalisation like symptoms, I have heard from others on the forum that have experienced a similar sort of thing, here is a example:
http://www.forummatters.com/forums/showthread.php/1730-Please-Help-i-am-confused-Marijuana-Dissociative-Depersonalization-Disorder
But I am not saying that this is the norm, it may just be a relatively small number of us, but it may happen to some. If there’s one thing I have learned on the effects that various drugs can have on the body including the brain, is that there are those who aren’t affected too badly and those that they can really mess up, when it comes to the brain some people are much more vulnerable than others, as I always say it’s extremely important to monitor how you are reacting to any drug you are taking and if it’s not agreeing with you recognising it early on and stop. In terms of the addiction thing again people have such different experiences, you have been able to abstain from cannabis for long periods of time and didn’t really find it a problem, others on my forum experience intensive sweating, insomnia, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, strong cravings, ect, ect the list goes on and on and it can be different for everybody, there are hundreds of posts like it, do I think that they are lying because you have not experienced it, no, do I think you are lying because they have, no, do I think we may all have a different predisposition to getting addicted to different things much of which may actually be inherited and can all have very different experiences with various drugs, most probably yes. I have read a number of times that the amount of users of marijuana that eventually go on to feel that they are dependent on it is around 10 percent. Unfortunately all this is something that both the pro and the anti often completely over look and is something I am always having to say to people, so many people just aren’t aware that we can all react to different chemicals very differently, that’s why drug companies have to list about a million different side effects in those little leaflets people get with their pills but almost never read, as you can guarantee someone somewhere has experienced it, I think it’s something called pharmacokinetics or something like that, basically how our bodies react to different drugs, anyway it will probably be a big part of medicine in the future. Anyway I will wrap it up there as I think I am starting to ramble. For the record I think locking people up or giving them a criminal conviction for using marijuana is the last thing we should probably be doing, I think that probably goes for most drugs, I see drugs as a public health issue that people deserve to be warned of the potential dangers of, but not criminalised for.
Anyway the main thing is for both sides to have a grown up conversation about it and to try to take a balanced view.
Many thanks
Peace and love
Well, BFB, I didn't say I hadn't experienced problems using cannabis. In the immortal words of the beautifully eloquent Rab C. Nesbitt, 'My fears would give your fears the shits!' Indeed, during my decade of abstinence, I had no doubt I was one of the unfortunates whose reactions to the drug were terrifyingly dramatic. In fact, I thought I must be the only one. When I used to get stoned as a boy, one of the things that baffled me most about the experience was how the hell the people who I'd got stoned with could sit around acting as if nothing had happened to them. I couldn't understand how they could possibly act so normal when I was so definitely not. I assumed there must just be something wrong with me.
When I came home to cannabis (the proper, grown-up word for 'marijuana', which was a word made up by prohibitionists about eighty years ago to demonise cannabis) in 2004, I experienced hallucinations and loss of coronary control which felt as if my body had been possessed and was being controlled by some enormously powerful force - a power beyond human comprehension - which was aided and abetted by a gang of subservient and invisible elves. It was full-blown psychosis, alright - no two ways about it - not just a simple 'anxiety attack'. Unbelievably terrifying it is to lie in bed and witness something else take control of your heart, speeding it up until it should burst while you're incapbable of calming it down. You think you've sweated in your sleep? My mattress was soaked. And most disturbingly, there was blood on the sheet which could only have come out of one place - my guts. Then there are the helpers - the elves who chatter away just beyond your comprehension, knowing that you are aware of them and revelling in the recognition they're getting from you, working away on your throat and other chakras. The word 'terror' doesn't do the experience justice, nor does 'fear and loathing' adequately describe life during the days, weeks and, to a lesser extent, months after. That was around about the autumnal equinox. It took me several years to put together an understanding to come to terms and live in peace with it.
Again, in the first instance, I must thank the Netherlands for enabling me to do so. You see, during that long, dark winter of 2004/2005, I'd regained a sense of balance and determined to find out what was wrong with me. I realised no doctor or scientific understanding would help. I'd already spent many years exploring religion(s). I found out about Ayahuasca (See http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html for a good, basic description.) and decided I must use it. To cut a long story short, it worked. If it weren't for the Netherlands' unique tolerance which allows people to access chemicals at their discretion, Ayahuasca wouldn't have been an option for me and I might still be in the dark place where I'd been before. This isn't the most appropriate place to recall the details, so I'll sum up by saying Ayahuasca enabled me to understand the relationship between plants, or nature in more general terms, and humans together with the significance of each. We're not half as important as we might like to believe and cannabis offers a unique means of integrating or incorporating the human psyche into the environment. It's complicated (yet so simple). You'll just have to take my word for it. (Hurray - no science here!)
Actually, there is something else I found to be of great help, which you might also like to try: I read on your board about how you try taking vitamins to help you feel better. I tried the opposite - fasting. It was something I'd wanted to do for many years, but had never managed. During the week before Easter Sunday, 2005, I ate nothing, drinking only water. It was difficult, but it was a start. For the next couple of years I would spend a week, ten days or a fortnight fasting once every three of four months. My record is from 21:12 (the full moon) on 7 June to 12:21 (the full moon) on 7 July 2009. I haven't felt the need since then. It was 2006, by the way, when I spent the month of July camping at het Amsterdamse Bos, cycling (I love Holland!) and attending ceremonies at the Santo Daime church. So, if you really want to find out why you react to cannabis as you do, I would suggest learning how to fast and then getting in touch with the Santo Daime.
I can't really say I've experienced 'mental fog', as you and others describe it, as a result of using cannabis. I will, however, admit that I'm not as bright or clever - not as sharp or quick - as I used to be. And my memory fails me more and more. This might simply be the result of ageing, but I don't rule out the possibility that cannabis has something to do with it. It could also be Multiple Sclerosis, which as I've already mentioned, I was diagnosed with in 1988. I don't mind. Fortunately, I don't need to be any sharper or quicker than I am.
As for addiction... Well, I did an interesting experiment this summer: having smoked every day for several months, I left my gear at home when I went on holiday for three weeks. I'm glad to be able to report I didn't experience any cravings or other such 'classic' signs of addiction. I did, however, have terrible trouble sleeping. That's the only thing I could say is a really difficult part of cannabis cessation for me now: it becomes quite impossible to sleep more than a couple of hours at night and then the next day, naturally, is a struggle to get through. Once cannabis is legal and open to research (Not long now!) I'm sure we'll learn how to juggle cannabinoids to overcome this effect. I'm sure there are plenty of people in California, for example, who have mastered this already. So, would I include myself among your ten percent who come to say they are dependent on cannabis? Yes, I would, because I am, but I don't have a problem with that. I could have a problem with the law, but that's a human aberration or perversion of nature and there's not much I can do about it. I don't think I have any more trouble with my cannabis dependence, apart from the law, than a type I diabetic has with insulin dependence.
So, in summary, BHB, I'd like to suggest that running away from cannabis use might not always be the most satisfactory solution. Sure, it may ameliorate some symptoms in the short term, but it's not really doing anything to get to the root cause or the reason why the organism found its use necessary in the first place. In my experience, if you really want to find out why you are the way you are, you've got to roll up your sleeves, grit your teeth, force you way through your fears - always bearing in mind, of course, that your fears would give anyone else's fears the shits - and dive right down deep and headfirst into the cesspit of your soul where you may be overcome by demons and drown in the foul mess you may have made of your life.
Just one more thing: I agree with you about how people's predisposition to the effects of cannabis use differ and vary. As far as I'm aware, I've never actually met anyone who is subject to such dramatic effects as I am, but I can see from places like your board that they do exist. Though most people like me probably go through their entire lives thinking of it as a curse, if you're really lucky, you may begin to understand and recognise it as a blessing. It's a gift.
Good luck!
This is a well written, concise and well researched article. Well done to the author. When I used to smoke dope at college (of course I didn't inhale, m'lud) I never thought it had negative effects or was addictive. Luckily I gave up in time to get on with my life but it's shocking to see how much more powerful the evil weed is nowadays. I now work for a Scottish drug and rehab clinic (http://www.castlecraig.co.uk) and we get lots of polite and good looking addicts from The Netherlands, but I'm not sure we've had any marijuana addicts yet. But thanks for warning us about the risks.
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