Sun, 22 November 2009
Some 450 pre-Columbian pieces in Quai Branly museum.
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Basil Howitt on criminal investigations in the coastal resorts.
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De-baptism organisers say the initiative is a response to what they see as increasing stridency from churches – for instance Pope Benedict XVI’s recent comment to AIDS-ravaged Africa that condom use could further spread of the disease.Do you disagree with your parents over religion?
In Britain, some people clearly do: more than 100,000 Britons have recently downloaded "certificates of de-baptism" from the Internet to renounce their Christian faith.
The initiative launched by a group called the National Secular Society (NSS) follows atheist campaigns here and elsewhere, including a London bus poster which triggered protests by proclaiming, "There's probably no God."
"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds (4.35 dollars, 3.20 euros) a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.
The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name.
"They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the British government.
So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other Britons have followed suit.
Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.
Jehovah's Witnesses take part in a mass baptism at Kiev's Olympic stadium, 09 August 2003
The Church of England said its official position was not to amend its records.
"Renouncing baptism is a matter between the individual and God," a Church spokesman said. "We are not a 'membership' church, and do not keep a running total of the number of baptised people in the Church of England, and such totals do not feature in the statistics that we regularly publish.”
Lashing back
De-baptism organisers say the initiative is a response to what they see as increasing stridency from churches – for instance Pope Benedict XVI’s recent comment on a trip to AIDS-ravaged Africa that condom use could further spread of the disease. The remark stirred global controversy.
"The Catholic Church is so politically active at the moment that I think that is where the hostility is coming from," said Sanderson. "In Catholic countries, there is a very strong feeling of wanting to punish the church by leaving it."
how sick is this country ? quite honestly words fail me, clearly these individuals have no apreciation of anything, I can only assume as a result of far too many years of far too much of a easy life in the sceptic isle "nanny state", presumably being debaptised will give these lost souls a sense of perspective ? although quite honestly I doubt it, since these people are far too far gone to be saved by anything
saved from what? why do you think they want to be saved from anything?
i´m not saying they "want" to be saved but quite honestly to go to these lengths to deny something that is not making a difference to their life if they are atheist, suggests to an intelligent person that they are leading empty lives, which naturally suggests a absence of fulfillment, for which the solution is to "save" them from themselves - if they have this way of thinking then they pose a threat to normal rational thinking people who might take them seriously.
Wot? Brain the size of a planet and what do they get me to do... try to understand what sane is saying.
I am off to download a form, I think its a great idea, I think the church has had its day.
for the benefit of Marvin and others similar ; what I am saying is "don´t atheists have anything important to think about" presumably not since interlectual comunication has Marvin rushing off to debaptise...........and what difference exactly will that make to anything ????
One a serious point then. What difference will it make? I have struggled forever dealing with the whole church thing, the existence of god, etc. and I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who wishes to support such a concept. I had baptism done to me when I was just a few months old, I have never really had a problem with that either, for 53 years. My parents did a great job in being my parents and they did whatever they though right for me. At that time, sure, it was the thing to do to baptise your child. I dont even have a problem with my baptism right now, because I dont care about it. However, I am a bit tired of the church (all of them) and their preachings, nothing that the church has to say to me makes any sense, however Darwins theory makes total sense to me. So, it just makes me feel better to have something to show that represents my feelings. All the believers have a church to show to represent their feelings, ther rest of us will have a piece of paper. So what. I cant see why that should represent a threat to anyone or bother or worry anyone. People like to associate themselves. Churchgoers with the church Barcelona fans with Barcelona, Formula 1 fans with F1, athiests too. By the way, normal rational thinking is what Darwin did when he came up with his theory. What sort of thinking is it that gives us the church view.
Depends on the church as to the origins of some of their views (Catholic,CofE,Judaism,Islam etc etc) and Darwin came up with his unproved crackpot idea after the death of his beloved only daughter, which lead him to lose his previously strong faith in the church and belief in G-d. A thoroughly depressed and disilusiones man, he studied the evolution of the birds etc and developed his theory to the point that he basically said it is just a question of time before every living thing evolves in to being a human ? Well, hasn´t happened so far, cats are still cats and dogs are still dogs to put it in simple terms.
On the other hand a 2 year study of DNA carried out by a team of 30 world class professionals working oh the haplogroup project has proved scientifically that in fact the origins of man as the bible explains it are true hence proving that the "word of G-d" which is what the bible is in reality, is a fact.
So who do we believe, the now scientifically proven word of G-d himself, or some depressed former poet whose simple ideas were embellished during an era of general disatisfaction with the power of the church ( it was the then UK goverment who was promulgating Darwins ideas as it suited them to undermine the church by this new fad).......................still what differenece does it make..... everyone in the UK will still vote for Tsar Brown and co. ..... is it only popular in the UK to challenge the church ??????????????? could it be the "bully" mentality of the UK, ie pick on the easy target ??????????
a person can get baptised all they want- or dont want-
and it still doesnt do anything to you spiritually speaking
unless you already know christ as your saviour.
read the bible folks!!!
and obviously no one there does ,that is freaking out over it.
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